?Why I can't fight?

I feel the need to make this post since a few seem to be under the impression that I shattered my knees or they just don't know why I can't or they think I can play Dagorhir to its fullest and am exaggerating about why I cannot do so right now.

First off - No. I did NOT shatter my knees. If I had I would be in a wheel chair.

When I was at BMT (Basic Military Training) I was diagnosed with 'Patello Femoral Syndrome'. However, to narrow it down to specifics from my doctors since this is normally classified as a 'sports injury'. -- What my doctors and my physical therapists/techs told me was that I have that as well as chronic knee pain. I've been told that my knee caps are loose to the point right now that I can rotate them just the right way and dislocate them (And it's true. I can feel them slide when I walk or if I rotate my leg the wrong way in my sleep and everything locks up. It hurts.)

They are constantly popping when I walk. Just like cracking your knuckles. That's the feeling in my knees and sometimes the sound is just as loud if I move from a position that I've been in for a while. I.E, sitting or standing in one position for longer than twenty minutes. It's why you'll see me constantly moving whenever I come to Dag unless I have to sit down to let the other pain ease up from my weight being on them. I also can't lift more than forty pounds right now. If I do my knees slide, lock and I can't move (Tested it at BMT). Enough weight will do more damage and I don't want to find out what that is. So ...if you come running up to me and jump...and naively expect me to catch you. Think again.

Activity - Even the day to day things cause swelling under them and it makes them stiff and while that does hurt it does seem to keep them from slipping out I guess. As far as why I specifically cannot play Dagorhir right now though is that having one good hit or falling to my knees at full impact can shatter them or damage them to a point that I need surgery to fix it. I won't risk that. I can't even kneel without causing the pain to radiate through my knees and up my thighs. I sound like my mom when I try to get back up.

Will I lope around the park to go get something for someone at short spurts if I feel that I can do so safely? Yes. I will. I don't like to feel like a cripple. If it hurts to much, will I continue what I'm doing or even try it to begin with? Nope. Could I run a marathon or do the actual run around the baseball fields with the Royal Army AND keep up? No. I honestly can't say that I could without crying all the way and needing an oxycodene tablet when I got back to the gazebo.

The reason I did lope a little yesterday is because I took 1000mg of Naproxen right after I got there due to the pain. It's an anti-flammatory medication that takes down the swelling and is supposed to help with the pain. I normally don't take it because you're only supposed to take one 500mg pill at breakfast and the other one at dinner and that doesn't do anything for me. I took them both together and was glad that I didn't get sick. It did help me throughout the day though until I got home.

How did this happen (according to me)?

I have no idea. Had I had problems before I left? Not really. At least I didn't think I did. I'd have a slight twinge when I hit a certain speed on the treadmill and that was about it.

How did this happen (according to the military)?

Three doctors and two physical therapists said I had it before I got here and two said I was born with the problem. PT (Also known as exercise) is what they said brought the problem to light. Yes. The Air Force really does exercise (ALL DAY).

On a slow day we ran and I do mean ran up and back down four flights of stairs at least forty times a day. Trust me. I counted once. We double timed our ass past five squadrons just to get to the bridge to be able to go anywhere. A single squadron was like running around the baseball fields twice and we had to pass five squadrons. And then we would usually double time it over the bridge (half a mile at least) and we would do this several times a day to go to and from our own squadron. And this happened every single day.

On run days we ran for forty-five minutes straight on a two mile track before breakfast. We could not walk. We could not jog. We ran at our MTI's (Military Training Instructors) pace and I tell you what he was fast.

I'm sure you've all heard about getting punished with doing pushups at 'bootcamp' as well. Well, you don't just do pushups. We did squat thrusts as well and we did this every single day at normal PT and then whenever they wanted to put us on our face. Squat thrusts are a bitch on the knees.

Why would this damage my knees? I don't know.

What I would assume and what my medical paperwork says is that this activity made worse an existing problem and it rapidly over the period of five weeks tore down what strength of muscle or tissue that was holding my knees in place and further damaged/loosened them.

How can I fix it? Physical therapy and pain pills.

According to my doctors I can never fully recover from the damage I did with anything short of surgery. The physical therapy will however strengthen the muscles around my knees enough to hold them in place and help alleviate the pain. Will I ever be completely pain free? No. But I will be able to within six months ease back into Dagorhir and more strenuous activities. I was told that I need to keep up with the physical therapy though in order to maintain that stability; For as I ease back into high impact activities it will inevitably begin to tear down what I built up depending on what I subject my knees to.

Is it any better since I got back from San Antone? Yep. Because I'm not doing what I did there. My environment is more relaxed. However, extended periods of being on my feet or in one position does make it hurt. And sometimes I just wake up with it hurting. So, if you see me walking funny and I'm still walking anyway....Don't ask. I'm a prideful son of a bitch and I'm not going to go sit down. Usually I can maintain a normal posture when I walk unless my knees are irritating the muscles that run up my thigh and then it's sorta difficult. I will sit down when I have to because sometimes walking is better than sitting for me in some instances. -- And don't ask why it irritates other muscles. Do some research and see what the patello(?) is attached to.

And there is my rant. No, I don't want to be broken. No, I'm not going to harp on it. So, if I tell you I can't play Dagorhir or give you just one spar - Please don't ask me to do so. My answer will not change until I can go one day without at some point in there wanting someone to take a sledge to my knee to stop the throbbing. I want very badly to play our sport just like anyone else. But when it comes to a choice of being able to still walk tomorrow or enjoying the battle just once...I do believe I will choose to continue to walk even if it hurts. I don't want my recreational activity to be wheel chair races with my mom in Wal-Mart anytime soon.

I'm also getting sick of the "You failed in the military.", "The military doesn't want you." or the "Stop getting on your knees so much for men." jokes. It is not appreciated and I won't put up with it.

I didn't fail out of the military. I chose to still be able to walk rather than come home to my family in a wheelchair because I was stupid and didn't listen. Could I have applied for a waiver to stay? Yes. Was I advised against it? Yep. Two section supes with seven more stripes than me, three Lieutenants, a Captain, a Major and a Colonel told me to take my ass home and heal properly rather than cripple myself or sit around a med hold and try to heal, not do so properly and wind up like the idiots before me that hadn't listened (That I met in med hold). I did not want to wind up with one surgery after another and get discharged and told I can never return to the armed forces. I pushed one of those fools in a wheel chair down to chow the day I got to the med hold. He started with the same exact problem I had and didn't listen. He has now been in BMT for 9months and counting.

If the military didn't want me then they wouldn't have let me in. I just have to be fixed in order to serve to my fullest. Though at this point I'm pretty damn bitter about it all and no I can't say I'm going back right now. I'm just trying to get on my feet with life. But I certainly miss it. I'd never felt more at home than on the drill pad and in a uniform. Loved it.

As far as men go...Well just because you don't know my personal life and I don't share it should tell those that like to make such petty digs the reason I don't trust them enough to let them into my personal life outside of Dag. I don't subject my family or people close to me to stupidity and never will.

And for Gods sake start respecting the military in and of itself. If you are not in it and never have been or your name is not Kilanos (who with valid reason digs at the Air Force lightly) - Close your damn mouth when it comes to the military. I'm tired of hearing how the Air Force or the Army doesn't do this or doesn't do that and I'm especially sick of hearing "The military's never done anything for me." bullshit. If you don't have anything good to say about the people who die every single day to give you the right to be the immature asshole your mother gave birth to and probably dropped on their head as a baby then don't say a damn thing about them. At least not to me. In range of my hearing. And I better not get told about it. The next person that does is going to find out what my fist tastes like before they finish that sentence with the shit eating grin they usually have while they're making whatever new insult they have.

I've lost two friends these past two weeks and one was diagnosed with cancer. One was Josh. The other was Army and died in a combat zone. The other is Air Force and never made it to tech school. I don't care what you say as long as it's not around me. I've lost to many friends in the military that were fighting or wanting to fight for you and our home to put up with them being insulted and their deaths and service being cheapened by someone else's ignorance.

And there is my rant.

Cheers everyone. Glad to be back in Barad'Dun.

- A

p.s. You need not reply if it's snide, hints at any sort of an apology (I don't want one.) or if it is to explain away what was said or what remarks were made. I will simply leave it at some misunderstood what was said about my current condition. Some did not know. And others simply have yet to grow up or just don't like me. I no longer care which of the above it was. I simply ask to be paid the common courtesy of civility or silence if you cannot manage civility. You don't have to like me. You don't have to respect me. But I would hope you could muster the ability to simply leave me alone if that is a better idea of some sort of civility in your book.

WOW!

Er? Welcome back?

Patello-femoral-syndrome! Welcome to the club! 4 years of climbing up and jumping off of tanks onto concrete ramps, long ass hikes, and other ridiculous repetitive trauma did me in too.

Quote :

How did this happen (according to the military)?

Three doctors and two physical therapists said I had it before I got here and two said I was born with the problem. PT (Also known as exercise) is what they said brought the problem to light. Yes. The Air Force really does exercise (ALL DAY).

Did the Docs at MEPS diagnose you? If not DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING STATING IT WAS A PRE-EXISTING CONDITION. If you do that you'll screw yourself out of disability pay for life. If they didn't catch it before hand, TOO DAMN BAD. Legally, it occurred after you joined the military so the military did it to you. If they make you sign something, refuse. Tell them you'll need to talk to a lawyer. Do NOT let yourself be bullied by them.

Congrats.

Also, the popping never goes away - I'm downing motrins by the ass load daily.

sad face Tiberius i have bad tendinitis in my knees and i hate that i can't imagine what you and Alyssa are going though! ♥

Tiberius Claudius wrote:

Patello-femoral-syndrome! Welcome to the club! 4 years of climbing up and jumping off of tanks onto concrete ramps, long ass hikes, and other ridiculous repetitive trauma did me in too.

Quote :

How did this happen (according to the military)?

Three doctors and two physical therapists said I had it before I got here and two said I was born with the problem. PT (Also known as exercise) is what they said brought the problem to light. Yes. The Air Force really does exercise (ALL DAY).

Did the Docs at MEPS diagnose you? If not DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING STATING IT WAS A PRE-EXISTING CONDITION. If you do that you'll screw yourself out of disability pay for life. If they didn't catch it before hand, TOO DAMN BAD. Legally, it occurred after you joined the military so the military did it to you. If they make you sign something, refuse. Tell them you'll need to talk to a lawyer. Do NOT let yourself be bullied by them.

Congrats.

Also, the popping never goes away - I'm downing motrins by the ass load daily.

MEPS did not diagnose me. No. However, I did signed an EPTE (Existing Prior to Entry) as to not stay there at the med hold (ungodly place to be) for nine months or so fighting the case. They even told me I had the option to fight it when I got out despite signing the EPTE and told me I would probably win.

However...While you may say it's stupid (I don't know if you would) or anyone else would -- I would still sign that EPTE now today and no I am not going to fight it. I do not want to be considered physically disabled by the armed forces. I have been given the opportunity (as stated on my med paperwork) to return in a year if I want to apply for a waiver to get back in. Is it a roll of the dice as to whether they would approve it? Yes. But I don't want to be considered disabled no matter the benefits I would reap from it. Call it pride. But it's there.

Good to know about the popping. Motrin doesn't work for me. The IBprofen actually stopped working. I finally took two Naproxen at once (shouldn't do that) and it helped for a while. Though I'm sure it won't for long. I'm down to dealing with it and taking oxycottons when it gets to bad (can only do that at night or an off day).


-- Kitty,

I'm sorry to hear about your tendinitis. I don't know how you deal with it. I had a friend in the med hold that had that. But she had a few things on top of it to the point that her tendons were coming apart in the back of her legs and muscles were separating or some such...visibly so.

I know this may seem like an odd reply, but here it goes...

-hug- I hope that the physical therapy helps and makes it so that you can do what you really want to with the smallest pain possible.
I'm dealing with some medical issues that prevent full Dagorhir participation as well. The non-diagnosed part is that my joints hyper-extend. I'm double jointed in my knees, hips, and elbows(most visibly). The diagnosed part is chronic fatigue coupled with fibromyalgia. This limits me do to pain and exhaustion. I've gotten to the point that I can shoot 4 arrows in one day, but I still have the stiffness and pain from it for 5 days after. I have a long way to go In the long run I may never get back to what I was, but I will be doing as much as I can. Even if all I can do it heralding or sewing from the sidelines. I WILL participate!

Dwyna

My sister had PFS in her knees, it is something about the alignment of everything during development in growth spurts. She was in physical therapy for months and eventually had to have surgery on them to fix it.

Dwyna wrote:

I know this may seem like an odd reply, but here it goes...

-hug- I hope that the physical therapy helps and makes it so that you can do what you really want to with the smallest pain possible.
I'm dealing with some medical issues that prevent full Dagorhir participation as well. The non-diagnosed part is that my joints hyper-extend. I'm double jointed in my knees, hips, and elbows(most visibly). The diagnosed part is chronic fatigue coupled with fibromyalgia. This limits me do to pain and exhaustion. I've gotten to the point that I can shoot 4 arrows in one day, but I still have the stiffness and pain from it for 5 days after. I have a long way to go In the long run I may never get back to what I was, but I will be doing as much as I can. Even if all I can do it heralding or sewing from the sidelines. I WILL participate!

Dwyna

That's not odd at all. *squish with hugs*

I appreciate the well wishes and truly hope that you as well can cut down on the pain in order to better enjoy yourself in Dag and life itself. I've heard good things about you, hun and I'm really sorry to hear about the pain. I hope you come out soon. I can't wait to meet you.

Right now my work schedule means that I'll only be able to attend Althings for the time being. Speaking of which, I'll be there on Dec 5 until 2pm.

Dwyna

Alacian wrote:

MEPS did not diagnose me. No. However, I did signed an EPTE (Existing Prior to Entry) as to not stay there at the med hold (ungodly place to be) for nine months or so fighting the case. They even told me I had the option to fight it when I got out despite signing the EPTE and told me I would probably win.

However...While you may say it's stupid (I don't know if you would) or anyone else would -- I would still sign that EPTE now today and no I am not going to fight it. I do not want to be considered physically disabled by the armed forces. I have been given the opportunity (as stated on my med paperwork) to return in a year if I want to apply for a waiver to get back in. Is it a roll of the dice as to whether they would approve it? Yes. But I don't want to be considered disabled no matter the benefits I would reap from it. Call it pride. But it's there.

I wouldn't say its stupid. Personally, I would have fought it in MEDHOLD but that's probably only because I spent 4 years in and know just how much Uncle Sam wants to use us, abuse us, and throw us away. I would say that a waiver in the future will preclude any further disability if you get back in the service and hurt yourself more, but I completely understand the pride aspect and I am proud of you for having that determination. I spent a year-and-a-half in the hospital at Ft. Sam Houston because of the injuries I received in Iraq and know all-too-well how much MEDHOLD sucks ass. If you ever change your mind, you can absolutely contact the VA to give you a disability rating for your knees. Make sure you save the paperwork, but now that you have it, any time you want you can go to the VA get the help that you need. Call on me any time and I'll get you the phone numbers and help chew some ass if need be. The system is a bitch to navigate.

A word of caution as well re: the meds. I know a ton of vets who are addicts now because the military fed them hard narcotics and opiates like freaking M&M's without any real investigation into pain management. Hopefully you will be able to find other means to control it.

Tiberius Claudius wrote:

I wouldn't say its stupid. Personally, I would have fought it in MEDHOLD but that's probably only because I spent 4 years in and know just how much Uncle Sam wants to use us, abuse us, and throw us away. I would say that a waiver in the future will preclude any further disability if you get back in the service and hurt yourself more, but I completely understand the pride aspect and I am proud of you for having that determination. I spent a year-and-a-half in the hospital at Ft. Sam Houston because of the injuries I received in Iraq and know all-too-well how much MEDHOLD sucks ass. If you ever change your mind, you can absolutely contact the VA to give you a disability rating for your knees. Make sure you save the paperwork, but now that you have it, any time you want you can go to the VA get the help that you need. Call on me any time and I'll get you the phone numbers and help chew some ass if need be. The system is a bitch to navigate.

A word of caution as well re: the meds. I know a ton of vets who are addicts now because the military fed them hard narcotics and opiates like freaking M&M's without any real investigation into pain management. Hopefully you will be able to find other means to control it.

Well I appreciate that. I also didn't know you were in at one point. I'd like to say thank you for your service. ^_^ Much appreciated it is.

I hated Medhold more than anything I've ever had to do in my life. I know most don't think it's a bad thing but 3/4's of my dorm was openly lesbian/bi-sexual. I don't see anything wrong with homosexuality mind you...but being in a dorm with women who have been there for nine months + and counting is NOT fun. Some were alright and others I threatened to throw over the fire escape if they didn't get off my bed or me. That is one reason I don't regret fighting it in MEDHOLD because of how long I would have been there. My week and a half there is what screwed with my head more than the rest of BMT. Just the feel of the place and it wasn't even just the girls that were there. It was that it made me feel like I was in a convalescent home. What made it worse is that one of the Colonels had the the A/C turned on. It was 40 to 48dgs in our dorm day and night. We had crippled/broken and sick people there with neumonia. I hate hospitals as it is and that place made me wish I was in one instead. I actually got yelled at FOR doing pushups.

I have to much pride for my own good and right now my knees aren't feeling any better. I'm working on the physical therapy though. But if it doesn't and I hit a breaking point then you just might hear from me. Right now my ass is to stubborn otherwise. If I do get back in though the damage is on me and I'll deal with it. Right now I'm weighing my options and figuring out life.

As far as meds go...I'm not hooked on them. I simply deal with it. My mom gets pissed at me for it because I won't take medication until I'm at a point where I can't stand up without hitting the floor or just can't get up period. I let it get to that point before I'll take medication because I don't want to be dependant on it. I'll take more than the allowed anti-inflammatory now and then if I have to. But I try to avoid the rest.

I do appreciate the help and the advice. You might just get a pm from me in the next couple days with some questions actually.

Until then.

- A

i put kitty powers into all of you getting better!!! NOW DAMNIT!! lol

Hey Alacian, I'm sorry you had to pull out when it meant so much to you. On the flip-side, we'll be glad to see you again.

I don't think Tibby is telling you not to take the meds at all and if he was, he'd be wrong. I respect your desire to stay in control and not let the meds run your life, but remember too that it's a balancing act. Letting the pain wear a track in your nervous system is a sure route to long-term, nearly incurable, chronic pain. Find a balance; taking the meds only for the physical pain and making sure you do manage the pain. You might find this article on the long-term problems of unmanaged pain worth considering as you deal with your own healing process, especially notice page 7.
http://www.doctordeluca.com/Library/Pain/PainMedEmergency08c.pdf

Regarding getting back into Dag. Be careful. This sport screws people's knees up all by itself. If you start fighting again, you might consider always taking a lost leg as death or sitting on your butt or something. If I were you, I would NOT hobble around on my knees in this game.

I hope you'll be able to make it to WoR in February. It should be a good party for the fighters and the spectators.

My knees come and go. If I forget my knee pads, some time I'm okay, and sometimes I have pains in my knees for weeks. They say once you hit 40, you don't have as much fluid in the knees and joints. Yes, I believe it, thats what it feels like. I don't spring up and down stairs as quickly, and sometimes it feels like the knee area is rubbing against eachother or something. The last two weeks were painful walking, bending down, going up stairs, getting in and out of the car, even standing for a long period or when sleeping, the knees seemed to get stiff and I'd have to move them, all because I forgot my knee pads at that great practice we had Saturday before last, and I did alot of running and stuff. Taco always says I'm always on my knees! Guess I have to get those legs out of the way.

Heretic gave me the same advice that Isk just gave about taking any leg hit as death rather than go to the knees. Pads do help though, so does ibuprofen.

Take your meds, feel better, get better.

Konradr

Isk -

Don't be sorry. I had plenty of time to get over it and keep going with life. I'm glad for the experience I did have and I wouldn't change it for the world.

As far as what Matt said about the medication - I know he wasn't telling me not to take it. He was just saying not to abuse it. The reason I don't take it regularly is because of the type of medication and what it does to my equiliberium. I have been on several different types from mild to the kind that knock you out. Ibprofen was the last try and it really does not help. I was taking 800mg pills and even tried two at a time. It really does not help. Oxycodene is the only thing that helps for a while and I won't take that during the day. If I have to take it I do so at night so I can sleep without waking up every two minutes. The pill doesn't make me tired, it simply throws off my equiliberium and I can't walk straight to save my soul. Everything feels like walking on a waterbed. I'm trying to figure it out as I go though.

As far as taking a knee goes that won't be for sometime. I can't kneel right now. I'll definitely take it as a death when I do get back to being anything more than an archer. Thanks for the advice and I'll definitely read the article on knee pain as soon as I get back from church. Gotta dash soon here.

I'm going to try and make it to WoR. I'd love to hang out with ya'll again. We'll see as it gets closer.

Hopefully I get to see you next Saturday though as well.

- A


Konrad -

You can get dry socket before you're forty Konrad. At least that's what I've been told it's called by my mother. I had it really bad back when I was working retail. It hurts like a son of a bitch. Wear your knee pads, Konrad!

I'm working on the getting better and am taking all the advice I can get. I appreciate the help.

- A

It sounds like you've got your head on straight dealing with the problem, the pain and the meds. My biggest concern centers around making sure you understand the transition from acute, occasional pain to chronic pain. Chronic pain is handled very differently by your body and opiates like oxycodone actually provide a protective element for your nervous system beyond the simple relief of the pain. Being smart about how you manage the pain now can make a HUGE difference in what it does to your nervous system as it continues.

Good luck and hope to see you Saturday!