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barrikaide



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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:15 pm

konradr wrote:
Just find the middle ground so we can all just fight together as proposed by anthony and Grek. hell, I nominate Anthony and Grek to lead the way. Wait, I need a neutral War Wolf in the mix, Ok, Templar. there, our three council men, Anthony, Grek and Templar.


Sounds good to me Smile
King Templar, Shepherd Anthony, Marshall Grek
Unit leaders Konrad, Taco, RA person. Now you 6 get to work Smile

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K'urn

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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:19 pm

@ Tooka
Quote :
So when there is an issue or discussion that needs to happen, such as the realm "water" policy for example. How would one bring that to the council to discuss? Will we have a separate forum for the votings, and another (perhaps the commanders forum?) for bringing up issues to discuss before they go to vote?
1) The individual would take their concern to their unit leader and the unit leader will bring it to the council.
2) Council votes will be done at council meetings.
3) It will be up to the council to decide if they want to create a forum for open discussion.
Quote :
I assume votings will happen online, and not in person, for that would be unfair to those who couldn't make it or were not informed there was a meeting (oh yeah, that happened quite a bit actually *cough*).
No, council votes will be done in person at council meetings. Council meeting times and locations will be the same from month to month, it is the unit leaders duty to make sure their unit is represented at each meeting.
Quote :
Will we open up the commander's forum to advisors of each unit to voice concerns, and create a separate forum for the council to vote in?
Answered above.

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Phoxly

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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:30 pm

Why does the council have to vote on the matter on one day? Why not make it two practices to gather up votes/input on the matter from unit leaders and council? I can already see that old exclusionary horse rearing it's ugly head again. Just the same as Demie was not invited to council meetings before, but Heretic was told she was by Knubbs 10 minutes after Heretic called and asked her if she was, and she had no idea. I certainly hope we don't have that bs again.

Will the council meetings at least be on a Saturday at practice off to the side where everyone (including an advisor from the unit) can make it to? - Question Answered, Thanks.

If a unit leader cannot make it, can they have an advisor vote in their place?

Also, who's leading the RA?

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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:56 pm

Tooka wrote:
Why does the council have to vote on the matter on one day? Why not make it two practices to gather up votes/input on the matter from unit leaders and council? I can already see that old exclusionary horse rearing it's ugly head again. Just the same as Demie was not invited to council meetings before, but Heretic was told she was by Knubbs 10 minutes after Heretic called and asked her if she was, and she had no idea. I certainly hope we don't have that bs again.

The point of the council meetings and the whole point of the articles is to stop the exclusionary shit. Please think about it before you post stuff like that. That's why the articles are being discussed and that's why this thread here. If we didn't want your say we would have kept this in the commander's forum. But we are trying to take steps into the right direction.

Too all involved in this thread, please be Mindful and read the whole thread before spouting off. Smile

Council meetings need to be kept at absolutes to stop abuse. Think about it this way. Ragnarok has a war council once a year. Every Realm gets to send 2 people to the meeting to speak on behalf of there entire realm. Usually 30-40 realms show up. Out of the 2000+ people that go not including the rest of the sport, only 60-80 people deal with rag and it works. I believe Bel is similar but has realm age requirements.

Things will be announced, things will be kept consistent, and things will move along. That's the point of the articles, to run this realm with as little stress as possible. To have simple course of actions to make it easy for everyone involved.


Tooka wrote:
If a council person cannot make it, can they have someone vote in their absence?

Units:
In order to gain a vote on the council any five or more active members who come together under a single banner may form a unit. Units will be required to compose a charter and to design a banner. Unit leaders are required to attend regularly scheduled council meetings. Unit leaders may appoint a unit mate to act as adviser for any and all council dealings. These advisers do not get voting rights inside the council, unless the Unit Leader will be absent. Each unit leader gets one vote inside the council. Units who do not provide representation at two consecutive council meetings will be stripped of voting rights until they attend two consecutive council meetings.


Tooka wrote:
Also, who's leading the RA?

As of right now we are deliberating but Nightmare is the Most senior rank.


Additionally..... The council will be this:

Adunakhor Heretic
Shepherd Smithy
High Marshall Knubbs
War Wolves UL - Konradr + Advisor
Black Lions UL - Taco + Advisor
Royal Army UL - Nightmare + Advisor

If you do not trust your unit leader to make correct decisions for you than please be the advisor. The council needs to be somewhat of a private event to make sure it goes smoothly. I can only see delays and pointless arguing if the whole realm is at the council meeting. Leadership is Leadership.... if after all this and a couple of Council meetings you aren't satisfied then talk to your unit leader. He will voice your concerns because if your having a problem then most likely other people will be having a problem as well.

People have to remember that change should happen slowly with due caution. Jumping on the bandwagon and hoping for the best isnt the way to do things. If we need 1 meeting a month, cool. If we need one every week, cool. We will decide that as a council.

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konradr

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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:59 pm

The Unit Leader chooses a second to attend with him, or in his place. The unit second can vote if the unit leader is not present. That was stated in the original proposal.

I can not make a decision on a dime. If a vote of any magnatude is neccessary, I can not vote if I do not know the feelings of my unit on the matter. I need to know the matter ahead of time, I need to take it to my unit and ask how they feel about it and I need them to vote for me. My vote is part of their vote. If their wishes outnumber my wishes, then I vote what they want, not what I want. It would be unfair to them if I made the decision without knowing how they feel.


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K'urn

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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:01 pm

@Tooka
Quote :
Why does the council have to vote on the matter on one day? Why not make it two practices to gather up votes/input on the matter from unit leaders and council?
Any issue will have a month between meetings to be discussed. There is no reason to stretch out the voting process.
Quote :
I can already see that old exclusionary horse rearing it's ugly head again. Just the same as Demie was not invited to council meetings before, but Heretic was told she was by Knubbs 10 minutes after Heretic called and asked her if she was, and she had no idea. I certainly hope we don't have that bs again.
It sucks that happened. It's for that exact reason the meetings will be the same time and place each month. Once you know of one meeting you know of them all.
Quote :
If a council person cannot make it, can they have someone vote in their absence?
Yes. There is a clause in the articles for that.
Quote :
Also, who's leading the RA?
I believe that would be Knubbs.

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Knubbs

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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:49 pm

konradr wrote:
The Unit Leader chooses a second to attend with him, or in his place. The unit second can vote if the unit leader is not present. That was stated in the original proposal.

I can not make a decision on a dime. If a vote of any magnatude is neccessary, I can not vote if I do not know the feelings of my unit on the matter. I need to know the matter ahead of time, I need to take it to my unit and ask how they feel about it and I need them to vote for me. My vote is part of their vote. If their wishes outnumber my wishes, then I vote what they want, not what I want. It would be unfair to them if I made the decision without knowing how they feel.


Fortunately what we will be discussing in the council should be and will be known in advance of meetings to let you have time to think and contact who you need too. Smile
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Kyrian



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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:54 pm

Knubbs wrote:


Council meetings need to be kept at absolutes to stop abuse. Think about it this way. Ragnarok has a war council once a year. Every Realm gets to send 2 people to the meeting to speak on behalf of there entire realm. Usually 30-40 realms show up. Out of the 2000+ people that go not including the rest of the sport, only 60-80 people deal with rag and it works. I believe Bel is similar but has realm age requirements.


Not quite. There are two levels in Bel at the national level. The first is speaking rights which allows a realm to contribute to any discussions taking place at the national level but cannot actually vote. There are a number of criteria that must be fulfilled but probably the most important is that the realm be sponsored by a current voting realm and be voted on by all of the current voting realms in Bel. After a certain amount of time, a realm with speaking rights may be brought up for voting rights. What most voting realms tend to look for in a realm asking for voting rights is some system in place for insuring the continuity of the realm regardless of leadership.

If you wish to read the Bel bylaws (which also define the officer roles), they are here: http://wiki.belegarth.com/Belegarth_by-laws

While the on-line component of War Council can occasionally be burdened by its own bureaucracy (sorry for the alliteration), it's worked fairly well considering how the realms are dispersed throughout the country.
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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:49 am

barrikaide wrote:
konradr wrote:
Just find the middle ground so we can all just fight together as proposed by anthony and Grek. hell, I nominate Anthony and Grek to lead the way. Wait, I need a neutral War Wolf in the mix, Ok, Templar. there, our three council men, Anthony, Grek and Templar.


Sounds good to me Smile
King Templar, Shepherd Anthony, Marshall Grek
Unit leaders Konrad, Taco, RA person. Now you 6 get to work Smile

Strangely i am ok with this
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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:13 am

Kyrian wrote:
Knubbs wrote:


Council meetings need to be kept at absolutes to stop abuse. Think about it this way. Ragnarok has a war council once a year. Every Realm gets to send 2 people to the meeting to speak on behalf of there entire realm. Usually 30-40 realms show up. Out of the 2000+ people that go not including the rest of the sport, only 60-80 people deal with rag and it works. I believe Bel is similar but has realm age requirements.


Not quite. There are two levels in Bel at the national level. The first is speaking rights which allows a realm to contribute to any discussions taking place at the national level but cannot actually vote. There are a number of criteria that must be fulfilled but probably the most important is that the realm be sponsored by a current voting realm and be voted on by all of the current voting realms in Bel. After a certain amount of time, a realm with speaking rights may be brought up for voting rights. What most voting realms tend to look for in a realm asking for voting rights is some system in place for insuring the continuity of the realm regardless of leadership.

If you wish to read the Bel bylaws (which also define the officer roles), they are here: http://wiki.belegarth.com/Belegarth_by-laws

While the on-line component of War Council can occasionally be burdened by its own bureaucracy (sorry for the alliteration), it's worked fairly well considering how the realms are dispersed throughout the country.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't too fluent in the bel beau setup but i had heard something like that. It seems we are taking those steps you mentioned for the continuity and it should be very helpful for us.
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barrikaide



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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:26 am

Knubbs wrote:

Additionally..... The council will be this:

Adunakhor Heretic
Shepherd Smithy
High Marshall Knubbs


Why? I think its time to start over. All 3 can still go for re elections but i think its time for a fresh start. I did not even know you were Marshall until this thing was posted. I remember Kat getting demoted even though she is more active than some on the council and i know you act like a marshall, but i do not think it should just automatically be given to someone.

So i think its time for a Fresh start come the new year. That is also why we have this post going anyways.

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Rule 4: Doubletap: Carrying a gun(SpeedBat) is a great idea but it should never be your primary weapon. When you do end up using it for that last minute 'oh shit' moment remember to double tap. Its an emergency and that's why you're using it and not your cricket bat so why skimp? One bullet(wrap shot) more in the head(kidney) will go a long way to ensuring your survival

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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:43 am

I'll be happy just to have them out at practices again... I'm tired of listening to a higher council that governs what our group does, when we don't get to swing foam with them. I just want to have fun, and let those who rose to the occasion to handle issues, handle those issues. I've brought up several issues with Taco, we'll see how the council handles them, and how open they are to change. I'm willing to give the new council a couple months.


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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:09 am

If people want to thats fine but until the elections I am the High Marshall. I was set on a watch and i did my test and i was awarded the position.

I will be running for re-election as the High Marshall. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Articles of Confederation V-1   Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:20 am

Hello all. Well it's time to get these Articles going and to vote in a new Tribunal.

Instead of asking for people to comment on what they like about these Articles, I will ask that anyone who has any issues with what is here to speak up and let their voice be heard.
I understand that not everyone will see this here, so I also ask that someone volunteer to read or pass out a copy of these articles to everyone at practice, get their input and report it here. These articles will be ratified on the 11th of January, assuming all issues have been resolved.

Assuming that the Articles are indeed ratified on the 11th, we need to hold new elections.

To start this process we need to get a list of people who want to run for the elected positions of Adunakhor and High Marshal. Remember, only ACTIVE members are eligible to run for election. Someone needs to volunteer to announce this at all practices.
(Anyone wanting to run for a position should respond in the candidate thread, or by proxy if you don't have access, not here)

It will be assumed that by Saturday the 7th of January everyone will have been made aware.
Between the 7th and 14th of January anyone who wants to run for election MUST respond (in the candidate thread) and make that intent clear. On the 15th or 16th the list of all people who are running in the election will be posted (someone needs to take a copy of this list to practice on the 21st and the 28th of January). The populace (that's you guys) will have until the 28th of January to cast a vote (votes will be by ballot and in person, when you turn in your ballot your name will be recorded as having voted; only ACTIVE members will be allowed to vote). The results will be tallied and announced on the 4th of February.



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