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Taco

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PostSubject: Low profile Spears   Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:59 am

http://geddon.org/index.php/Low_Profile_Spear

found on the bel bored and i was wondering if it would pass if not i will mess with it so it will then.
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caretaker

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:04 am

lulz. I just found the link to this the other day when i was looking up new ways to make spears.
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Taco

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:05 am

lol
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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:08 am

Except I will probably use a nerf football, like i always do, since i dont have access to eva.
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Taco

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:09 am

good point
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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:12 am

And it should pass, it is made almost like our old dag spears, shouldnt have a problem with the design.
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Taco

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:13 am

cool i will have to get to work on it as soon as thouse poles get in.
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Smithy
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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:19 pm

You know that the eva foam can be found at Lowes or home depot. I found it in the form of sectional floor padding.
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konradr

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:44 pm

You know that thick ass black foam that Loptr's shield blanks are made out of, have you seen any of that around? Lowes, Home depot or Galaxy???

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Taco

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:17 pm

i have to take another look, but konradr last time we went down to galaxy foam they didn't have anything like the stuff that loptr had, i didn't see any at lowes either.
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Isk

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:10 am

Loptr said he could bring more of those blanks to Yestare, Konradr. You could also order them in from warlordsports.com. Theirs are very similar.

Smithy, I love the flooring EVA for a base layer on reds and blues. The fiberglass won't chew through it and it bonds well. Also, there has been a good thread on the bel forum regarding ensolite and where people are getting it. http://board.belegarth.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=34204

Taco, Arrakis just said he has a new design for jav/spear heads that he will be putting up on geddon shortly. You might want to keep an eye out for it, if he gets it up soon that could be very helpful.
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Taco

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:13 am

thanks for telling me isk i will keep a eye out man.
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Taco

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:37 am

Arrakis wrote:
Cool, Poo. I have something similar, though perhaps a little more complicated in construction. I wrote this up to PM to a few people a while back, since I didn't know at that time if it was going to work well enough/last long enough for me to want out there in the hands of just any * body. It's likely to wind up a dangerous failstick in the hands of a new foamsmith, so, everyone keep that in mind...




"
Mekoot Lob'o inspired my design with his own all-closed-cell spear, which has passed at Oc-fest, 'Geddon, Equinox, etc. this year (pics available in threads with pics of him in them, like the 'Geddon pics thread). I'd say my spear would likely pass at most Bel realms.

Here's the plan that I have sent to a few curious souls:



[size=150]WARNING: ADVANCED EXPERIMENTAL NON-WARRANTED WEAPON DESIGN AHEAD![/size]

Arrakis' Experimental Spear Instructions
based on original work by Mekoot Lob'o Lizardman and the arrow construction discussions of Oznog

Materials:

  • Primary foam ~2# density (I used blue)
  • Marine foam (ensolite)
  • DAP
  • Gorilla Glue
  • 1.5" Fiberglass Strapping Tape
  • Hockey tape
  • 1.25"+ wide cloth athletic tape
  • cloth, thread, etc. for covers
  • stiff planar material (I used Armor-thickness leather; could use thinner non-brittle plastic, perhaps)


Now, keep in mind that I just kind of Built my spear; I didn't have much of a plan at the beginning, just some ideas, but I took several hours/days to think about each step, so, make of it what you will.


First up, a discussion on strapping tape and pre-building cylinders:

Strapping tape is great because the fiberglass strands running longitudinally through it prevent it from stretching at all, ever. I use it to make foam cylinders with a fixed outer diameter so that I can stretch the cylinders onto a core that is slightly bigger than the cylinder's inner diameter without expanding the cylinder, creating a denser, less-compressible cylinder of foam. I do this by taking a sheet of foam cut to length and an appropriate width to wrap with some stretching around whatever I'm wrapping, bevel the mating edges so that they match up without difficulty, then tape the foam into a cylinder with two or three bands of the strapping tape.

Now.


1. I started with a 7' Bandpole. I taped the cap on with a strip of strapping tape and a band of hockey tape. I then prebuilt a cylinder about 7" long and spread Gorilla Glue on the first 7 inches of the pole. I wet the inside of the cylinder and shook it out, leaving a little bit of water (GG likes water, but only a little), then I twisted the cylinder down onto the pole, moving it into position quickly once you start, so it doesn't get stuck in the wrong place. GG acts fast. I then crossed over the tip with a couple of half-strips of strapping tape.

2. After that, I added a circle of leather over the tip, covering the core and this first cylinder of foam; use whatever you think will do the job. Then, go ahead and cut a ~3" strip (or whatever) and spiral wrap your haft below your head-base to however long you want your padding; I padded more length than I had to on mine and I recommend padding at least 40% of the haft, just because people will get hit with it occasionally if you fight spear correctly. I used DAP for this step and taped the ends with hockey tape. Make sure you butt up tight against your head-core padding.

3. Now, cut another wrap for the head, this one around 9 or 10 inches to overlap the join between the head-core foam and the shaft wrap foam. Tape it around something just smaller than your head-core the same way as before and then prepare it for GGing. GG it on over your head-core/as much of the haft wrap as you planned for. You should now have a cylinder of bluefoam with a circle of leather flush with it on the tip. Wrap the top edge of the cylinder, right near the flat end surface, with a wrap of strapping tape; tug it kind of tight, but not tight enough to change the shape of the cylinder or make it taper in where the tape is.

4. Now, you have a solid head-base. Push on it some if you like, from the axial direction of the spear. Very very little give. You pad this area and you're going to get an effective 2"+ inch compression diameter, preventing what Oznog has been calling "core push-through" in his archery discussions; same concept here.

5. The head-core you have right now probably doesn't make size, yet, if you've been compressing the blue foam properly with your pre-made cylinder wraps. Do one more pre-taped wrap layer, length is your choice, around the head-core, to get a little more width. You can use a thinner foam than blue if you like; just get the head up past 2.75" across. Wrap it next to the end with strapping tape as before. Once that's done, prepare the striking surface padding:

6. Cut three disks of bluefoam the same diameter as your head-base. Cut enough marine foam of whatever thickness you are in possession of to produce a ~1.25" thick disk of it the same size as the bluefoam disks you just cut. DAP all of the blue disks together (very important to wait like 40 minutes after DAPplication before you put the disks together to make sure you get a crazy good weld). DAP the Marine foam on.

7. You now have a head. Unfortunately, it's mad sick wiggly right now. So, we're going to add wraps of strapping tape in overlapping stages up the head from just below the striking surface padding to halfway up the marine foam. Now, I poked some slits in said tape wraps with an Exacto or whatever; circumferential holes leaves the fiberglass fibers intact, axial cuts don't. I did some of both; do as you see fit. Then, to keep the marine from ripping right at the border of the strapping tape, cut the strapping tape axially with small, 1/4" long cuts every 3/4" around the circumference of the tape right at the border. Now, here, I also put a loose (non-compressing) double wrap of the wide athletic tape around the marine foam-strapping tape border right up to within about 1/8" of the end of the weapon.

Now, I didn't, originally, put any axial strips of strapping tape on the head. The first day of fighting, everything above the second blue disk ripped loose. A combination of shield edge hitting, no axial strapping tape, and an, apparently, completely failed DAP bond did the job. I reDAPped it and added strips of strapping tape running lengthwise down the head from the middle of the wide athletic tape to the support padding. This has done the job and the head is now quite stable.

8. Now, if you haven't, add hockey tape at the exposed pommel-facing ends of the cylinders to anchor them down to the lower layers, add either cloth covers (saves weight, doesn't grip as well, slightly more work, cheaper) or hockey tape (hits harder, is heavier, easier). I did cloth cylinders that I slid on from the pommel end and taped on with hockey tape before I built the pommel. Sew a cover for the last 5+ inches of the head and tape it on, build a pommel (I like mine flat-ish for better one-hand work), and add any details you like. Ta-da! A spear. Check it, see if you like it, mess with it if it needs any work.




Enjoy, and be careful with this build; it's much less foolproof than the old 4.5"-wide POOF Football spear, though you can make this design wider using the same solid-base concepts and use POOF ball foam, as well, if you like.
"



Anvard, a Dag Realm full of 14-17 yr olds, primarily, seems to like it just fine and I hit them just as hard as I hit anyone. Mine came out to ~2.8" across at the tip and was built to end up around 7.5' long.







so i found the deisage by Arrakis but i was wounder if it would pass with out changes or should i try and change it to some opean cell. I think me and smithy will discuss about it and see what we can come up with. if anyone has any ideas on this please tell me.
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konradr

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:32 am

Is sectional floor padding the foam padding put under wood floors????

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Isk

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:48 pm

If Smithy and I are on the same page, it's the stuff intended for shop floors to cover the concrete in places where you stand a lot. It's super-dense EVA that makes a great base layer for reds and I use it for blues, too.
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Taco

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:22 am

well i was almost finished with my spear and i ran out of dap!! it sucks so bad.
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konradr

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:43 am

Here's a pic from the Dag webpage on new low profile spears.



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Isk

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PostSubject: Re: Low profile Spears   Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:26 am

Arrakis' jav tutorial is now up and I would use it instead of Alric's spear tutorial if you want a fancy new design. Alric added a lot of unnecessary complexity, IMHO, and by wrapping the ensolite/marine foam in strapping tape, that foam will offer almost no compression. As always, YMMV, but that's my evaluation of the two tutorials.
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