Why is Belegarth cesored???

I was bored and was trying to see how many cross over groups there were. The black Company is found in both bel and dag and are both represented by a leader named Fergus. Same symbol and everything:D One day their will be peace and we will all fight together. Imagine how big our sports would become!!!

Caretaker wrote:

One day their will be peace and we will all fight together. Imagine how big our sports would become!!!

Check the 3 maps I have linked to and make a guess that way

Most of Dag is in the East, and all of the events are in the East. We need to make a major event out West and get those guys to take that 35 hour drive this-a-way.

Besides "Fool's Raid" the only event that seems close to us (Dag wise) was listed as Mordor's wood's battle.

I'm for co-existing out here in the west, but that's just my nature. Live and let live (just keep a foam flail handy at all times)

Konradr

OOH! Here's a funny one as well. Same topic but a different direction as it involves the SCA. I was in garb waiting in line at a gas station when someone asked me what the with the clothing? Friendly conversation ensued as I explained when from like three or four people back someone from the SCA decides to butt in and start promoting his (sport)? Anyway long story interesting those people (SCA) looked at me like I got it all wrong and was supposed to fight with a specialized block of wood and wear enough metal to stop gunfire. Talk about a difference of opinion! At least our weapons actually look like swords and still have no chance to break any major bones.

Y'know I feel better now.
Thanks

Konradr, I like where you are going with that. In the interest of continuing the cross-gaming, I-don't-care-about-their-political-BS theme I will say there are a bunch of decent bel events out here already (come to Chaos Wars this year!) that we should get all of our dag friends to attend.

Smithy, when I chose to start a bel/dag group last year I debated mostly between a WMA (Western Martial Arts) group and going bel/dag. I went with bel/dag because I wanted it as realistic as possible, but still a sport with the lower required dedication level and barriers to entry. As a sport I accept that there are conventions for safety and playability that detrimentally affect realism. IMHO, it kicks the pants off the other two closest sports, Amtgard and the SCA.

Amtgard has magic, no bashing or grappling and no concept of minimum hit. Realism is not particularly important.

In the SCA they normally wear some variant of plate armor, but the techniques they use mimic unarmored rather than armored combat (which is good because most armored techniques are very difficult to perform safely). Single-handed swords don't just cut through armor. Many in the SCA even believe they actually participate in a martial art.

At the end of the day I respect both Amtgard and the SCA as sports in their own right and will happily play both, but when it comes to a SPORT that most realistically approximates unarmored pre-firearms combat, bel/dag is the best thing I have found.

I think its really easy for Bel people to host an even that Dag people can go to, where as Dag people can't exactly host a cross sport event (a big one) because alot of Dag rules frown upon Bel weapons.

Mostly the "The sword must balance on the blade" rule that Dag forumers claim gives Bel an advantage and makes it unrealistic. I'm from Bel and I have never seen a weapon that balanced ON the hilt. It was always on the lower end of the blade.

Kind of brings me to my question of weapon checks at Fool's Raid, if Bel people come how strict are we going to be on the Dag rules, obviously rules that make the game more safe are encouraged but what about weight and such?

The only place I have seen equipment that balance in the handle have been in amtgard.

Most dag rules that have been passed were to outlaw edhellen models. (btw, Edhellen is also banned from the dag boards)

Most dag/bel equipment will pass at any dag or bel location. Last Fool's Raid, only 12 weapons where failed (and nearly all the amt weapons) for small issues like small pommel, loose blade, hitting to hard and weight. Most where fixed in about 30 minutes.

I was swinging my new sword around last night and honestly could not imagine it weighted in the handle... Its whippy enough as it is, yes I want a few counterweight coins, but nothing extreme. o.0

Also I've seen Amtgard youtube videos, they are soooo hilarious with their weapons haha.

Wait till you fight them. Some are great fighters, I have even learned many a great move from the good fighters. Some are wimps. The stories I could tell... (you want them? pm me!)

Phoxly, Amtgard's finest are incredibly skillful fighters. They have a HIGHLY competitive culture and have refined foam fighting. Fighting with Amtgarders is very good for bel/dag fighters to learn speed and while many Amtgarders hit lightly, the higher levels of competitive Amtgarders will leave you with no doubt you were hit. Do not taunt happy fun Amtgarder. Many of the training videos we link and learn from were created by Amtgarders. Since the SCA was brought into this, there is also a lot to learn about commitment, follow-through and generating power from them. These are both highly competitive sports in their own right. Remember the golden rule.

and on that note, one should check out the SKBC videos. Great stuff there.

i watch the skbc vids and they have reaally great advice in there

Isk wrote:

Phoxly, Amtgard's finest are incredibly skillful fighters. They have a HIGHLY competitive culture and have refined foam fighting. Fighting with Amtgarders is very good for bel/dag fighters to learn speed and while many Amtgarders hit lightly, the higher levels of competitive Amtgarders will leave you with no doubt you were hit. Do not taunt happy fun Amtgarder. Many of the training videos we link and learn from were created by Amtgarders. Since the SCA was brought into this, there is also a lot to learn about commitment, follow-through and generating power from them. These are both highly competitive sports in their own right. Remember the golden rule.

I'd LOVE to fight with some Amtgard players, I am all about the stick tag skirmish games with an open field of opportunity and strategy. Alot of the Amtgard videos on youtube are kids who started their own lil groups and are growing, so their weapon quality isn't the greatest but the style in the way they fight is fun to watch.

I also love SCA videos, so much power behind the hits, you can tell their weapons are heavy by the form and way they follow through with them, but they whip their sword back to shoot for another shot just as fast as a Belegarth player. Its really interesting.

On the topic of light hits and the like, I don't really understand how Belegarth's rule is you must strike with "sufficient" force, and Dag rules say "noticeable" force.

It wasn't until I came to Barad'Dun Dagorhir that I heard people argueing about whether a shot was too light or not. If you noticed the shot enough to call "LIGHT! -smack smack-" then you probably should be dead, IMO.

Yet in Belegarth I NEVER heard someone say a shot was too light, maybe a shot 'graized' or "GARB! -smack smack-", but the "sufficient" force rule was never an issue cause most people took their shots, or simply didn't and were usually talked to by a Herald.

I think calling "light" just cheapens the fight. =/

wow dude do you just not like us or something... i mean did we do something to you?

Just his personal observations from one area to another. Nothing harmful said towards the group.

The rule of thumb that many insist upon is; If you have to think about it, it was good.

Now the force of each hit can vary from person to person due to personal preference or ideology.

Example; one guy was not taking glaive shots because he thought they didn't have enough power. However, when ask if he would take a blue shot with the same power, he would. The difference? Wasn't the power, but the idea that larger weapons should deliver move of a powerful shot.

Another example; Small chick throws her hardest shot to a shield. Big burly guy doesn't take it. Why? The guy likes his shots with more heft to them. The way it was sorted was the guy was asked if he would have taken that shot if it hit his body. He said yes.

If it was hard enough for me to notice, I'm taking it. If it was a tap, I'll take it and the next battle pull the person to one side and find out what that person is doing during the swing and maybe give some pointers on how to land a harder hit.

no i understand that ... i'm kool with that to each there own ... just forget wut i said

sasquatch wrote:

wow dude do you just not like us or something... i mean did we do something to you?

By no means was it a mean remark toward Barad'Dun, I've seen flame wars on the Dag site about it aswell, and its a frustrating topic for me because I can't hit as hard as other players and it sucks when you squarely hit someone in the chest with a spear double handed and they call it light and run off, its been discussed before on these forums, and I guess its jsut a bitter topic for me, sorry Squatch

Morlock wrote:

Just his personal observations from one area to another. Nothing harmful said towards the group.

The rule of thumb that many insist upon is; If you have to think about it, it was good.

Now the force of each hit can vary from person to person due to personal preference or ideology.

Example; one guy was not taking glaive shots because he thought they didn't have enough power. However, when ask if he would take a blue shot with the same power, he would. The difference? Wasn't the power, but the idea that larger weapons should deliver move of a powerful shot.

Another example; Small chick throws her hardest shot to a shield. Big burly guy doesn't take it. Why? The guy likes his shots with more heft to them. The way it was sorted was the guy was asked if he would have taken that shot if it hit his body. He said yes.

If it was hard enough for me to notice, I'm taking it. If it was a tap, I'll take it and the next battle pull the person to one side and find out what that person is doing during the swing and maybe give some pointers on how to land a harder hit.

I was pre-testing my sword yesterday because I was unsure how hard it would hit, I asked my sister to hit me as hard as she could so I had an idea of how safe it was, she didn't mind, but it made me realize A) my sister can't swing a sword to save her life B) she also cant swing it very hard, which got me thinking about light shots in general.

edhellen weapons are awful. do not buy them. they are mass produced and made fast to meet a deadline. i've bought 2 in my life and i broke them both. i could give a crap that dagorhir banned em from the boards.

make your own weapons or humbly ask the famed SOB's for help.

i could also care less that a lot of dag people and bel people don't get along. in my opinion its not even worth this thread. dagorhir is awesome. belegarth is awesome. i happen to enjoy dagorhir more, whatev. i have many bel friends. one of my favorite groups in the world does bel and dag. The Fianna. some of the finest examples of sportsmanship and skill on the battlefield. they also don't use flails and have the best garb and camp in the whole of ragnarok every year.

the whole dag bel hatred thing here has been blown way out of proportion. i'd say 99.9% of dagorhirrim don't give a crap. its the people in charge who do. and they were there! so u would understand why they are mad.

and to be honest i've met many many people in dag. and many of those many people do both dag and bel. everyone here is talking about how lame dag is for being so stupid about the split. well most of those people who are still mad at bel were there when the split happened. and those who agree with those people are ignorant noobs. bel is not off the hook either. they left and the sport as a whole suffered. if you think dag are dicks for not trying to comprimise(which they are) then you would have to agree that bel are also dicks and childish for running away and starting their own group. there are people in bel who hate dag. so don't act like belegarth is getting bullied by dag.

there is such thing as a light hit. in bel and dag. what cheapens a fight is the person hitting light. when someone hits somebody lightly your forcing them to make the desicion of taking a bitch hit and dieing or calling light and looking like a dick. this is not a tap game. thats amt or nero. i don't care how small you are. my little sister audrey used to fight with me when she was in elementary. and shes hit me hard enough to regret going easy on her. i don't believe it when people say they can't hit hard. what i can beleive in is they are too tired to hit hard. if thats the case, get off the field and rest until you can play the game the way it was meant to be played. a good examplie is demie. when she started she didn't hit very hard but ive seen and heard some of the hard hits shes been dishing out latley.

i do guage who hits me. if they are tiny then i may take it. i almost never take light hits no matter how big or small they are if they aren't in my group. its the rules. rules are rules for a reason. i play this game for realistic fighting. they made the rules to safely reproduce that kind of fighting. those rules were stated to have force. a lot of people try to make it seem like just feeling that a sword touched you is enough force. far from it. the rule was created in the mindset that you would swing hard. thats it. sorry if this isn't what some people believe. because your wrong. i have been to rag war council several years in a row. i have talked with and discussed this game with several people who have been playing since before i was born. i'm 22. so i know how hard you need to hit in this game. hit hard.

i am extremely tired of these same old topics coming up. i can see why caretaker would be ticked off. he didn't know. but it certainly doesn't warrant this huge thread.

same thing with the light hits. seriously c'mon people. if you beleive any hit is a good hit even taps and light hits, you seriously need to learn your basics again because if you swipe my elbow with the reservoir tip of your sword and want me to take an arm off, you should not be in this game.

i'm not trying to piss anyone off, but i don't really care either. i just want you all to know, don't buy edhellen swords, always hit your hardest with saftey in mind, don't worry about the dumb tards who hate bel in dag and don't worry about the dumb tards in dag who hate bel, and don't talk about bel on the dag forum.

blah!

Well said my friend.

K-