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konradr

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PostSubject: size of fiberglass....   Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:56 pm

I'm looking for more of those square fiberglass rods. I found square Tubes (hollow) rods here http://www.mgs4u.com/fiberglass-tube-rod.htm but the minimum size (outer diameter) is 1 inch.

So I'm checking goodwinds and they don't seem to have square. They do have the nice round fiberglass rods (and specificly mention they are good for boffer weapons) Okay, but I don't understand the Outer Diameter measurements. Does .505 OD mean 1/2" ???http://www.goodwinds.com/merch/profile.shtml?index=1053378776_4427&cat=fiberglass.tubularfiberglass&loc=&listpage=1

Is this the right thing???

http://www.cheapjoes.com/art-supply/WD5653_24893_walker-display-system-fiberglass-rod-bronze.asp

These look like solid round fiberglass rods and are 48" long, but no diameter given, any guesses?
http://www.petazon.com/price/product/Fiberglass-Marking-Rods-48-in.html

This looks like the right thing, they sell solid square fiberglass bars from 1/2 inch to 1 and 1/2 inch in 5 foot lengths.http://neoprene-rods-bars.com/fiberglass/bars.htm and they sell hollow square tubes but they are expensive starting at 1 inch minimum size and 5 lengths. http://neoprene-rods-bars.com/fiberglass/square-tubes.htm

This site carries square PVC cores, but the shipping seems ridiculous. http://k-mac-plastics.com/pvc-square-tubing.htm

Oh, here's some square fiberglass rods, big ass ones. cheers
http://cgi.ebay.com/MILITARY-FENCE-SQUARE-TUBEING-FIBERGLASS-TENT-POST-ARMY_W0QQitemZ390089586944QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad326b900

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Phoxly

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:15 am

inb4 Caretaker Razz


Lowes and Home Depot have these 'amazing' fiberglass like square rods that Caretaker swears by, they are called driveway poles or something like that, they are orangish and used to mark the edge of a driveway in case it gets snowed over or something. I'm planning on making my next sword out of these, two of them together make a nice oval/elongated core. And they are REALLY sturdy/cheap.


Last edited by Phoxly on Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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konradr

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:25 am

Yes, he showed me his new sword made with those and I'm definately going to pick some up and see how they do. Do you know what length they come in?

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:38 am

I don't recall the exact length but I thought caretaker said one of them was enough to make one sword by cutting it in half?
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Isk

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:46 am

This is a great find Konradr, thanks.
http://neoprene-rods-bars.com/fiberglass/bars.htm

You might find this useful:
http://www.antirdearg.com/node/12

For 1/2" and 3/8" round, call around to ranch supply places. What you are asking for are electric fencing rods. I would try I F A Country Store (702) 837-1755 for the 3/8" and maybe the 1/2". 3/8" round is good for a finished sword out to about 27", after which it'll generally fail for flex.

I'll have to check out these driveway markers, the only two kinds I have seen are 1/4" fiberglass (way too thin) and somewhat larger ABS/Polycarb weirdness that didn't stand up very well. If there's something new, I'm interested.
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konradr

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:51 am

The sword Caretaker showed me was sort of gladius looking. By that I mean it had a kind of fat blade, and was short (26"???) It was light. He double cored them with the fiberglass markers (which he got at Lowes. Home depot not seeming to carry them). What intrigued me, and what I want to try, is the dapless method he build it with. I read the "dapless" method on the Dagorhir forum. Using double sided duct tape for the foam layers. That's what he did and now is testing the blade to see how it stands up to our heat and to our use. (He and Taco also made some speed bats with the dapless method and are testing them too). So far so good. Now I want to experiment as well.

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Phoxly

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:56 am

I think my next weapon may be dapless too, the edges of the blue foam layers are coming apart on my sword, not TOO bad but I think I only have about 6 more practices out of it lol. I don't think there is too much of a weight issue too with it, my sword is underweight at the moment even with two nails in the pommel .____.
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konradr

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:26 am

Romeo put all those washers on the pommel of the sword he made at weapon's build. Y'know that like 36" purple people eater which weighted it beautifully, but now he's using the 30" sword I made without weighted handle. I used his purple people eater a few times and it stresses my hand because the damn hilt is so heavy. (though it balances at the blade part of the handguard). I guess I'm just not used to weigthed pommels, but then again WHY THE HELL IS HE USING MY SWORD NOW! (See video of us sparring. 4-10-10)

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Isk

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:34 am

I have experimented quite a bit with dapless construction over the last 8 months or so and may be able to save you some growing pains. The duck brand double-sided carpet tape does not have a very strong adhesive and is probably not worth using. The duck brand double-sided duct tape does work pretty well and seems to hold on better in the heat and the cold, but is definitely heavier. The best solution for me has been the rhino brand carpet tape (from home depot, back by the carpet rolls). It is light and the adhesive is pretty aggressive. Do clamp or otherwise compress the blades well after each layer, that has made a big difference for me.

Home Depot is closer to my house, so I'll have to drive the extra mile to check out Lowe's selection of driveway markers, I guess. Square double-cored fiberglass sounds interesting.

For counterweighting, I get used tire balancing weights from the tire shop. Very cheap and lead balances the thing pretty efficiently Smile
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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:00 am

The best dual core method I have found was one that Kurn taught me. It uses two driveway markers (round) that are four feet in length. Knock off the pointed tips and you'll have about thirtyeight inches to work with. From there I cut the desired core length with a clamp style pipe cutter. I used electrical tape to hold the cores together at about eight inches to a foot in spacing to prep the cores for gluing. I used Shoo Goo that I get at Wal Mart in the shoe section to glue the rods together and they have never come apart. Additionally I only get about ten degrees (if even that) of flex and thats if I'm really trying hard to bend them. Once it all cures in about an hour I barber pole the core with cloth tape so the Dap has something to adhere to. But you could forgo the cloth tape in favor of the double sided tape. It has yet to fail me.
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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:26 am





They look like these. You can find them in different types, however these are a medium thickness and should only be used for dual core designs. They are about 5ft long or so and cost about anywhere between $1.50 a piece to $3.00 from my experience. So i'm not giving false info, the one i made was from a core in Taco's garage, I've been trying to find them, and Baricade had told me that he has seen them at lowes. So I'm not 100% sure they are there.

But what you do is, you take two cut to the same size, Tape them together, the area where you see two is the flat side. So when the weapon is swung it uses each other to keep it from flexing. You can use the core to make your measurements, put a flat side on each side, so now when you look at the two sides that you can see the single core, this gives you your blade thickness you need. Then you just do each layer, with a strip of DS on from one side of the bottom to the other.

@Isk: Your right, The carpet tape sucks real bad, I have always used the DS duck brand. I'll have to check out that other stuff sometime:D You've experimented with the goodwinds cores, what sizes do you suggest?

I don't know what going on with the prices of that DS tape, It has always been about $4 a roll or so and you can get about 2 1/2 - 3 swords out of a roll, and i bought a roll when i made my shield and it was the normal price, however, when I bought some for a couple swords the other day it was like $6 at walmart:(

This is the way we used to make all our weapons, I've never used Dap in my life, until i got here. Like Konradr had said, I don't know how its going to react with the extreame heat here, however, our swords would last a good 5-8 months before they might have broke from the core. Other had lasted way longer than expected, lol.

My other suggestion is to make sure the DS is only touching foam and core layer, it will come off of other tapes, but once it sits and is compressed, the foam will rip to pieces before the tape gives(at least in room temp)

But anyways,
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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:31 pm

Huzzah for Caretaker saving the day Very Happy I can't recall any specific tutorials I have read but I think its favored to use double sided duct tape on arrows too right? o.0
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Isk

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:42 pm

The rhino tape is about $9, but it's got more on a roll and it's wider so by sq footage, it's a bit cheaper. Try it and let me know how you like it. I haven't used the ds duct tape for a while; Walmart always seems to be out of it when I look for it. One thing that has helped me regarding longevity is using tabs. Even with a box sword they really seem to improve longevity. A good tutorial/discussion on tabs is available on the dag forum: http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php?topic=13814.0

Regarding the kitespar tubes, I haven't used them myself yet. I have been using the hollow tubes from Max Gain Systems, which I love, but I want to order some kitespar in to work with. I just haven't had enough people willing to try it with me. I would personally only consider ordering the thicker walled 0.524" and 0.602" tubes since I tend to break weaker cores. I'd probably go with the 0.524", since the 0.602" is actually slightly thinner walled, but would be a little stiffer. I would like to make a longer jav out of the 0.602" stuff. If you want to order kitespar, we should order it together and we can divy it up via people going to and from Yestare.

And Konradr, unfortunately KMAC/TWS that you referenced above has a minimum order of 25 pieces. 25 1/2" square bars would last me a looooong time, but even an order of 25 is still a lot cheaper than ordering band poles for short reds.
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konradr

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:46 pm

That would definately be a "realm" purchase like we did with the 3/8 cores from Bestdagstuff before they went out of business and with the bandshoppe poles. The whole Realm bought some and we shipped together. I don't know if there would be enough interest in that many poles at the moment. The energy level after fool's raid has dipped a bit for all.

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:53 pm

Thank you very much for the advice Isk!Very Happy

I forgot one last thing with my directions on how I've made my weps. I criss cross cloth tape up and down the sword when its done to help bind it and minimize wear and tear.

The sword i make was 12.5oz and i weighted the pommel, it is made with no regular duck tape, so it ends up not being as heavy as you might think. It took me literally 10 mins to make, however my cutting job is not so well as usual, but under the cover you dont notice.
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konradr

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:57 pm

I'm crap at cutting foam myself. I use the artistic approach (a good cover will hide anything Very Happy )

I think we could have a "Loaner weapons build" and if we all chip in for some driveway markers, DS rhino or duct tape, blue foam, pencils (for hilt) we can make like a dozen decent loaner weapons. That being said, with a few more rolls of Blue foam, some PVC, some guerilla glue and more Rhino or Duct DS tape, we could make some simple loaner punch shields too. All our old PVC loaners are gone now.

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:01 pm

You brought up the other thing I forgot to mention, with tape swords you really need a snug cover from a slightly stretchy fabric. That light compression from the cover keeps it all together, especially in this heat.

Konradr, ordering from Goodwinds isn't actually that expensive unless you are getting the longer poles for javs. I just have the materials I need right now and would only order if several of us spread the already not very significant shipping amongst ourselves. If you were referring to ordering from KMAC/TWS, our realm would definitely want to order several of those 1/2" square along with you guys. I think the total with shipping was going to be around $80.
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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:23 pm

@konradr: with the way the dual core handles are, all you need to do is pick up a bunch of nylon rope and rap it, it makes the PERFECT oblong shape, just like the sword i showed you:D(instead of the pencils) Mind you the two cores already make that shape:D I just realized this recently, and i was so excited to find the perfect handle, in my opinion of course. It is a personal preference.

I think templar and I are going to rebuild all those loaners, eventually=D

Goodwinds seems really a cheap, reliable route to go. I was excited when i found them.
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konradr

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:02 pm

Well, let me see how money plays out in the near future. I was hoping to get a new laptop.


Does goodwins carry the square fiberglass or only round? I can't remember, the last time I looked I was looking at the bandshoppe type poles.

As far as KMAC/TWS I want to email them and see if that 25 piece minimum can be a mixed order. They carry solid rounds (maybe hollow ones to) as well as 3/8th and 1/2 inch square riberglass. A mixed order and everyone can get what they want in a one bundle, as well as some loaner cores. Its on my to do list of things to check into. I should scan my to do list, its crazy.

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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:18 pm

Wait so.....which cores is best for a javalin?
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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:14 pm

It depends on how long you want it and what is easiest for you to get. We mostly use the 1/2" round because they are easy to get locally from the ranch supply shop (electric fencing rods) and make a great 4' jav. If you want a jav longer than 5', weight and flex become issues. For a 5' or longer jav I would recommend either a 3/4" band pole (Max Gain Systems) or the 0.602" tube from Goodwinds.
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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:39 pm

4' javalins sound good.

is it ok to use PVC with Javalins, or is fiberglass the only reccomended way to go?
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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:47 pm

either. depends on what you want to spend. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:05 pm

For a four footer you can use 1/2" sch80 (the dark grey riser type PVC comes in four foot and works fine - not the electrical conduit sch80). With 1/2" sch80, it will end up a bit fatter and is a little more breakable. Sch40 needs to be 3/4" to pass flex and it's much fatter and weaker.
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PostSubject: Re: size of fiberglass....   Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:47 pm

Isk wrote:
Sch40 needs to be 3/4" to pass flex and it's much fatter and weaker.

I have never had a flex issue with .5" pvc at 5 feet for javelins. And there are some people who praise kite spar for a jav, others who use the jav as a green wouldn't touch kite spar. I have even been tempted to use Cpvc for a jav.

On a different note, I'm still looking for a tube that is longer than 8 feet. I found a source for 10 feet tubes in south cali, but they won't ship them. Pick up only. And a manufacturer in PHX can make a 20 footer for about $40, pick up only.
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