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konradr

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PostSubject: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:29 pm

Here's the link on the Belegarth wiki.

http://www.geddon.org/index.php/Constructing_a_PVC_Bow

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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:47 pm

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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:49 pm

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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:50 pm

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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:51 pm

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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:52 pm

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Morlock

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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:48 pm

konradr wrote:
As long as the topic is derailed we might as well take the ride in the name of interesting conversation....

I've heard people complain that the 15lb limit on crossbow's left them emasculated to the point they were only an interesting option for fun rather than serious use. Raising them to 35 means they may be a viable weapon, but a Crossbow is going to hit harder than a bow, in my opinion, so they need to be tested. I tried arching and found it too complicated for me; however, I like crossbows have used one to hunt rabbits with when I was a kid. I wouldn't mind getting one or making one. We would need a bow string weight testing thing. I've seen a topic on the Dag forum on making a simple, passable bow with PVC! Soooo maybe I can do a crossbow with PVC and a carved 2 X 4.

Bow's can be broken on the ground, yes. Just tap it and say "Bow Broken" It respawns with the dead archer.

Bows can be broken also, if the archer chooses to use it to block incoming blows. If it blocks a blow the blow will "Break" the bow. I would think you have to discard the bow after that as a "broken bow" shouldn't be able to block shots anymore. Of course by using it in this defensive manner, the archer is taking the risk of actual damage to his bow.

I wouldn't target the bow itself in any attack on an archer. I'd rather gimp or kill him. I wouldn't mind killing him and taking his bow and arrows for some quick shots at his friends either, but that would have to be okay with the archer.

Archer's don't have to engage in close combat, for instance if Kjir wants to arch, just let her know when someone gets close she can raise her arms and yield and they shouldn't hit her. We'll have to reemphasize the rules on not hitting a player who yields.

On that note, I'll try and get the loaner bow and arrows back into operation. Apparently it needs a new string, which I'll have to order through the mail. And the stupid aluminum arrows need a special nock I can't find even at the store I bought the darn things from. If anyone, another officer or weapon's checker, would like to take over responsibility of the Loaner bow and arrows from me, it may help get it back into operation quicker.(???)

As for my crossbow, I'm planning its construction in my head as we speak. I'm thinking of golf tube arrows, cut in half for crossbow bolts. (He he) They use those in SCA but with rubber blunts or tennis balls for heads. I'll use Mordrauk's design with blue camp mat foam, I believe its on the Dag forums too.

Konradr

What we need to keep in mind is the IP(Inch-Pounds) limit. While I'm not as savvy as Oznog, I still understand the basic principals. For example, a 35# bow firing a 24" arrow (assuming 4" brace) gives us a 840 IP rating for the bow. Poundage * draw = IP. Now let us suppose we only want to take half that force from a C-bow. About 400 IP. With the old rule of 15#, a person would need a power stroke, PS (from string at rest to full draw) of over 26 inches to reach the 400 IP mark. At that length, why use a C-bow at all? With the current rule, a 35# C-bow will need a PS of 11.5 inches to reach the 400 IP limit. We can buy 50# prods from hobby shops locally, granted they are metal and plastic. If we used one of them, we would need a PS of 8 inches. Keep in mind this will cause the bolt to hit with half the force of an arrow at full draw.

Some say we could keep the weapon within 600IP and still keep it safe. Others don't like the idea off 400 IP, yet they are find with a person drawing a 600IP "Half-draw" with a bow.

============
I bought a C-bow long ago that was rated 64# at 10"(with a 2" brace). To make it legal I would need a PS length of around 8 inches. Why 8 and not 6.25 like the math shows? Because with each inch I remove from the total draw, it drops the poundage rating. However, because my prod is over the 35# mark, it will always fail. No matter if my bolt can't be felt at 15 feet to the face.
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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:53 pm

I agree with Sasquatch from before, this is a crazy game, you shouldn't buy bows that are expensive or are too delicate to take a shot from foam weapons. Foam weapons get swung around all the time. I mean between what are game does and the rule that specifies that you can target bows and In-game damage them.

Never heard of the Yield thing. Usually I just turn my back to them if i don't want to be hit, and i usually get a courtesy hit:D Kjir has been getting better, she can take more of a beating now:D

These videos are cool btw. A cheap way to make something effective:D

@Morlock: I'm not sure what IP means, however, Dag has a draw rule of 12 inches on crossbows and 28 for bows. Or does IP mean draw?
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Phoxly

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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:05 pm

I bought a fiberglass bow cause people say they last longer against hits and what not than a wooden bow of equal price (around $50) so thats why I went that route, but I ALMOST went with the "make your own bow" idea with PVC and wrap it in rope or something to make it look fancy.

I have tried to yield or call myself dead before people hit me, as the entire reason I took up Archery was to not get hit so much, but I still find myself getting shield checked and what not, which is fine cause thats the game lol. As long as I have an arrow in my bow ready to fire I expect to actually be hit, but if I'm standing there helpess with no arrows then there isn't really a point cause I'm still going to go about retrieving them even after I die lol (in a valhalla setting of course).
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Morlock

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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:16 pm

Caretaker wrote:
@Morlock: I'm not sure what IP means, however, Dag has a draw rule of 12 inches on crossbows and 28 for bows. Or does IP mean draw?

IP = Inch-Pounds. The amount of force applied per inch (I assume).

The current dag rule set is too rigid. A "draw", should be power stroke, of 12 inches multiplied by 35# gives a IP rating of 420. Which is within the 400 target. However, most prods are not made at that low range and most checkers will measure the 12 inches from the prod to pin like they would a bow and not from the string at rest to pin like it should be done.

@Phloxy, you could PD the pvc parts then paint them to look like wood. Leather wrap the handle and you have a pvc bow that looks like a real bow.
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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:19 pm

Checking cbows seems complicated, at a practice in Shannara when we tested Aislyn's bow a few years ago someone had a thing they attached to the string and pulled the string back 28" and it had a dial that read how many pounds it was, this is how we found out Squishy's bow was a 50# bow at 28"...
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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:23 pm

Phoxly wrote:
someone had a thing they attached to the string and pulled the string back 28" and it had a dial that read how many pounds it was

A bow scale:

I had one at the raid.
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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:32 pm

@Konradr that 50# pvc horn bow is freaking AMAZING. I want to make one now, thats so cool O___O

@Morlock Aw I never saw yours there, I'm sure they have a device that measures the same for a cbow right?
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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:43 pm

ya i was like i could do that if i didn't suck at archery... crossbow seems like more up my ally
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konradr

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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:36 am

Accepting a player's yield is a courtesy as much as pulling a shot to the back. Its about a player showing control (control = skill) Two arms in the air, (like the "I surrender" thing) means a yield or saying "I yield".

Though Dag is based on LOTR and not on chivalry like the SCA where the Yield is an honor thing. Dag fighters can display such honor if they wish. I think it extremely bad taste to hit someone when they are offering a yield. At least try and pull the shot as a courtesy if you didn't recognize the yield right away.

I remember back in the day (not sure if they still do it) the SCA had two types of Archers. Regular archers (let's say light archers) and combat archers. Light archers wore a hat/helmet with orange arrows on it. They did not wear armor. You could not hit them, when you got within X number of feet, they had to yield or were simply called 'Dead'. Combat Archers were those that wore armor and had sidearms and could drop the bow and fight in close combat. Dag archers are combat archers, but I can see us incorporating the yield for slender, timid or little people who wanted to Arch but not get in the thick of it. I remember when D'edra played she would yield by turning her back as Caretaker suggested.

I remembered when K'urn was injured we would give him an immunity circle where he could sit in and shoot arrows onto the field. To kill him you had to advance and strike a shield (a small buckler) that was placed on the ground in front of his immunity circle.

Towers would work too for people that want to arch and not get into close combat, with a flag or shield that had to be struck/removed to kill them.

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konradr

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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:40 am

We need one of those bow scales. I'll have a look on Ebay and see if anything is reasonable FOR THE REALM!

Praise be to Barathor!

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Morlock

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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:58 pm

I got mine for about $20. Trick is to find one that starts at 15lbs.

Ebay Bows under $50

and one more
crossbow plans
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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Sat May 01, 2010 2:04 am

Morlock wrote:
I got mine for about $20. Trick is to find one that starts at 15lbs.

Ebay Bows under $50

and one more
crossbow plans


Why starts at 15lbs?
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Morlock

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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Sat May 01, 2010 2:57 am

Current Bel rule for Crossbows is 15#.

A 15-90 scale will suit your needs just fine.
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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Sun May 02, 2010 3:36 pm

Meh, Bow > Cbow, until I get pwned otherwise, I think I'll stick with it Sad I have yet to see it used as effectively in Dag/Bel as normal archery.
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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Mon May 03, 2010 1:40 am

I made a bow today
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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Mon May 03, 2010 1:40 am

I can see its a little off but i like how it came out for my first time!
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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Mon May 03, 2010 3:32 am

It looks good! Did you follow one of the youtube videos? The only problem is I'm not sure if anyone has a bow scale to test the poundage on the string. We need to know that it is 35lbs or less to be safe.

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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Mon May 03, 2010 3:46 am

dude that looks awesome how big is it? length wise?
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PostSubject: Re: PVC bow construction.   Mon May 03, 2010 4:03 am

Those are The same arrows phoxly has, So my guess is the Bow was made at 3ft long.

Really cool, I'd like to see how it works. Real good job in my opinion.

For some reason PVC bows scare me, lol:D
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