Articles of Confederation V-1

O.K. here is the first installment of the AOC. Any comments should be made as follows.

Quote the relevant section into your comment.
Detail your opinions and or suggested changes.
Include any additions you think pertinent.




Members/Elections:
Anyone who expresses interest and follows all Dagorhir rules may join the realm. Only 'active' members may be a council candidate or vote in elections. Active members may only vote once per position per election. 'Active' is defined as anyone who signs a waiver and consistently participates in two or more practices and or events (which could include weapon builds, sewing circles, day events, and any get together sanctioned by the realm) per month. 'Consistently' is defined as any three month period within the last six months prior to elections. Elections will be held every even numbered year in August/ September. The officials elected will attend council meetings as an observer until Kings Tourney, when they will be sworn in. The council may call for an emergency election with a two-thirds vote. Officials elected in these elections will finish the term of the previous official and can run for re-election at the next election. Individuals who are voted out may only run for re-election if the council approves by majority. Emergency elections may be held for one or both of the elected positions. There is no limit for re-elections.

Units:
In order to gain a vote on the council any five or more active members who come together under a single banner may form a unit. Units will be required to compose a charter and to design a banner. Unit leaders are required to attend regularly scheduled council meetings. Unit leaders may appoint a unit mate to act as adviser for any and all council dealings. These advisers do not get voting rights inside the council, unless the Unit Leader will be absent. Each unit leader gets one vote inside the council. Units who do not provide representation at two consecutive council meetings will be stripped of voting rights until they attend two consecutive council meetings.

Council:
The Council of Barad'Dun will consist of two elected positions and one appointed position. Other council seats will be held by unit leaders (see 'units'). The Council will hold regular monthly meetings to discuss the state of affairs in the realm. No one individual may hold more than one voting position on the council. It should be noted that a member who is elected or appointed into office is NOT required to quit his or her unit.

Adunakhor:: The Adunakhor is an elected position. He/she is the driving force of the realm, the 'king'. He/she will act as chairman to the council. In council matters the Adunakhor will recieve one vote, in the event of a tie vote the Adunakhor will receive two votes. (total, not in addition)

Shepherd:: The Shepherd is appointed by the Adunakhor. He/she will act as the right hand of the Adunakhor, second in command of the realm. The Shepherd is in effect the Adunakhor where the Adunakhor is absent. The Shepherd will be responsible for all record keeping, including treasury and council minutes, these duties may be delegated to others with council approval. The Shepherd will get one vote involving council matters.

Marshal:: The Marshal is an elected position. The Marshal will act as Head Herald, and third in command of the realm. The Marshal is responsible for training heralds, safety on the field, enforcing the rules of Dagorhir on the field. The Marshal will act as representative for all unit-less members. The Marshal will receive one vote in council matters.


...and there you have it. Again, any comments should be made as follows.
Quote the relevant section into your comment.
Detail your opinions and or suggested changes.
Include any additions you think pertinent.

In service,
K-

Quote :

The Marshal is an elected position. The Marshal will act as Head Herald, and third in command of the realm. The Marshal is responsible for training heralds, safety on the field, enforcing the rules of Dagorhir on the field. The Marshal will act as representative for all unit-less members. The Marshal will receive one vote in council matters.

So since we just had King's Tourney, should we be electing a new Marshall? Since Demie Zephyra was (for whatever reason ) was stripped of her position amid all the help she was doing befor KT and the realm while the Shepherd and King were MIA with life happenings, I think we should elect someone. We have many people who have stepped up and helped out with heralding and helping newbies in the past 3 months, some who have even been at practice more than our council.

Quote :

The council may call for an emergency election with a two-thirds vote. Officials elected in these elections will finish the term of the previous official and can run for re-election at the next election.

K-

K'urn wrote:

Only 'active' members may be a council candidate or vote in elections. Active members may only vote once per position per election. 'Active' is defined as anyone who signs a waiver a consistently participates in two or more practices and or events per month.

Ok, personally I would have a problem with this - I work hours that sometimes mean I cant get to practice due to being on shift - and I have no choice about it. I attend what practices I can but my shift pattern means there may be months where I can only get to a unit practice rather than a realm practice.
Does this mean I wont get to vote because I work odd hours? I do work for the realm away from the practices (like making garb and teaching people how to sew and make their own garb, and not just in my unit) so I am an 'active' member in my own eyes - I just don't want to lose the right to vote because my country tells me when to work.

I believe that a person who actively helps the realm, but is unable to consistently make realm practice should not be penalized - but if it is someone who is a member of a unit and does not actively work for the betterment of the realm should not get a vote - they are not actively helping or working for the realm so why should they get a say in its running...?

K'urn wrote:

Quote :

The council may call for an emergency election with a two-thirds vote. Officials elected in these elections will finish the term of the previous official and can run for re-election at the next election.

K-

Does that mean 2/3rds of the council must agree to call for an emergency election so we can get a marshall who was properly elected for the term?

Talk to your unit leader as they will be representing you in the new council.

I actually like it in it's entirety as of now. Time will, no doubt, cause it to be amended later on; but as it stands I think it will do well.

Smithy wrote:

Talk to your unit leader as they will be representing you in the new council.

Doesn't answer the question.

To address Prsym's concern with a solution...

K'urn wrote:

Only 'active' members may be a council candidate or vote in elections. Active members may only vote once per position per election. 'Active' is defined as anyone who has signed a waiver and has consistently participated in the realm in the last month.

Sound fair?

The word "consistently" rules out someone who's only done it once in the past month, and it allows those who do things outside of practice for the group to be 'active' and allowed to vote for elected positions.


How should we be handling members of the council, who fail to make it to practices and uphold their duties to the realm? I know everyone has a personal life, and things can get in the way, but at some point we need to draw a line. Is it unfair to tell someone they can't hold a special role in their larp weekend hobby because real life boggs them down? Well if they aren't doing the job they were nominated for, then they should do the responsible thing and step down. It doesn't mean they didn't do a good job, or that they can't still come swing foam, but it's not fair to have 3 practices back to back with no king, no shepherd, and no marshal. Which is half our new council.

The unit leaders have done a great job at stepping up, and I'm glad they are all now included in the council discussions. I don't think we would have made it to King's Tourney without them.

K'urn wrote:

Members/Elections:
Anyone who expresses interest and follows all Dagorhir rules may join the realm. Only 'active' members may be a council candidate or vote in elections. Active members may only vote once per position per election. 'Active' is defined as anyone who signs a waiver a consistently participates in two or more practices and or events per month. 'Consistently' is defined as any three month period within the last six months prior to elections. Elections will be held every even numbered year in August/ September. The officials elected will attend council meetings as an observer until Kings Tourney, when they will be sworn in. The council may call for an emergency election with a two-thirds vote. Officials elected in these elections will finish the term of the previous official and can run for re-election at the next election. Individuals who are voted out may only run for re-election if the council approves by majority. Emergency elections may be held for one or both of the elected positions. There is no limit for re-elections.



In service,
K-

It all sounds ok at the moment but how does it Start? We have an Absentee King and no marshall and the Shepherd is sort of active. Also no Unit leader for the Royal army. so that leaves Taco/Konrad and sort of Shepherd. Do these 3 vote in a new king to get things started or do they vote to vote in a new king and then bring it to the Realm for election or something?

K'urn wrote:

Marshal:: The Marshal is an elected position. The Marshal will act as Head Herald, and third in command of the realm. The Marshal is responsible for training heralds, safety on the field, enforcing the rules of Dagorhir on the field. The Marshal will act as representative for all unit-less members. The Marshal will receive one vote in council matters.


In service,
K-

Does The Marshall have to leave his/her unit or can anyone on the council be of any unit?

Prysm Stormfallen wrote:

K'urn wrote:

Only 'active' members may be a council candidate or vote in elections. Active members may only vote once per position per election. 'Active' is defined as anyone who signs a waiver a consistently participates in two or more practices and or events per month.

Ok, personally I would have a problem with this - I work hours that sometimes mean I cant get to practice due to being on shift - and I have no choice about it. I attend what practices I can but my shift pattern means there may be months where I can only get to a unit practice rather than a realm practice.
Does this mean I wont get to vote because I work odd hours? I do work for the realm away from the practices (like making garb and teaching people how to sew and make their own garb, and not just in my unit) so I am an 'active' member in my own eyes - I just don't want to lose the right to vote because my country tells me when to work.

I believe that a person who actively helps the realm, but is unable to consistently make realm practice should not be penalized - but if it is someone who is a member of a unit and does not actively work for the betterment of the realm should not get a vote - they are not actively helping or working for the realm so why should they get a say in its running...?

Who is to judge who is or is not working for the betterment of the realm. Participation at practices is big step in helping out the realm. More numbers means more fun and that's why if you participate you get a say in the goings on. If work and life get in the way that's fine you will just have to wait for the allotted time to jump back into the scheme of things. Doesn't sound bad to me.

1. The definition of 'Active' as in:

Quote :

Only 'active' members may be a council candidate or vote in elections. Active members may only vote once per position per election. 'Active' is defined as anyone who signs a waiver a consistently participates in two or more practices and or events per month.

Does 'Active' mean a person who fights as compared to someone who just comes on a social basis?

Does 'participates' include only realm practices or can/should it include unit practices as well as garb/weapon builds?

2. As of this date, we are still under the old system of government. Heretic is Adunakhor, Smithy is Shepherd and Knubbs was chosen Marshall by the first two. Once issues are ironed out with the proposed 'Articles of Confederation', I assume there will be a realm wide vote for ratification. Who will be allowed to vote and how many votes will or should each person/unit have?

3. Once ratified, do we continue with the same Adunakhor, Shepherd and Marshall or do we have an emergency vote right away or do we wait to see if the council calls for one?

4. Who is the leader of the Royal Army that will represent that unit in the council?

5. If the Marshall is suppose to represent all members of the Realm who are not in units, wouldn't that either rob him of his vote on the council or does he get two, one for his position and one for the wishes and desires of those members of the realm. And who then monitors if he is actually expressing their wishes or not? Or do we stipulate you have to be active and a member of a unit to have a say/vote?

I think it looks good. Very well written and clear. Just a lil tweaking.

Personally, I believe that with how things have been, to start the council off from scratch using votes from the entire realm would be more appropriate. Just as of now, in the future follow what was written.

I also think that changing the council 2/3 emergency rule would be fair as well. A 50% or more of the current members to sign a petition for an emergency election In addition to the 2/3 vote would make more sense.

I also agree that if someone shows up at least for support they should be considered active, not even necessarily just the fighters. Those few who show up every practice just because they love the realm and the people should get a say in realm matters. 1 time a month i agree with as well, people have lives, i think thats fair enough to vote for the elections. I also think there needs to be a rule for those on the council as well, the attendance rule should be more strict for them 2 a month but encouraging more.

Even if someone comes to practice on a "social status" such as a noncombattant who brings their boyfriend or girlfriend out. They spend their Saturday afternoon supporting us playing stick tag with foam weapons. Is that not enough for them to get a vote? Punishing those who support our group and offer transport to real combatants, and bringing water for those who don't have it is more than enough in my opinion. I don't like this "we expect more out of our noncombatants". If they didn't care about this realm, they'd drop off their husbands and wives, and go back home to watch TV or play video games. They are just as much involved as the rest of us. Our noncombatants helped out more at the event than our serious combatants.

I think that 'active' needs to be realm activity specific. If I get spiteful of the realm and say "screw it, I'm just doing Black Lion practices." why should I get a vote in the realm happenings??

I think more people need to be Realm First, Unit Second. Without the realm, we wouldn't have our cliques anyway. That's why I have 8... 9.. No, 10 loaner shields now. They sure aren't for lions lmao.

I agree we need to consider potentially re-electing officials (this doesn't mean they can't re-run, it just gives others a fair shot at taking responsibility in the realm). Unfortunately 2/3rds to call an emergency means all 3 unit leaders need to agree, and one of those who's potentially losing their position needs to agree as well.

I stand by my suggested revision:

Quote :

Active members may only vote once per position per election. 'Active' is defined as anyone who has signed a waiver and has consistently participated in the realm in the last month.

Not sure about this:

Quote :

Our noncombatants helped out more at the event than our serious combatants.

I saw a circle of noncombatants sitting around a fire and when asked to help with kitchen clean up, all said "no". But then if I pursued that, I would be going off topic.

I think it needs to be clarified one way or the other, but hey, that would be something for the new government to decide, by vote.

Some people, do to life, can't make Saturday practices but do make some of the unit practices, that's why I suggested it as a consideration for participation. I guess it would be another issue for the new government to vote on.

We can't put a price tag on how much people "do" for the realm. People who do more for the realm out of love for the realm or duty, or honor, should be congratulated, maybe even publicly recognized, but given an extra say in the Realm government, no. There are realms that exist with more, there are realms that exist with less. We can exist as long as we all participate and support the realm with said participation.

Some units, such as the Black Lions and the War Wolves, are 'National' units with parts in other places. Yes, these units will continue to exist, practice and maybe even thrive with or without the realm. These units have been made by the sweat, love and work of their unit creators, not the realm, though the realm in theory, supported their formations within the realm. In fact, the majority of 'Realm loaner' gear has been made either by the Black Lions or the War Wolves, so by the very existence of our units, we support our realm by participation.

So, what of these articles of confederation? When do they take effect, and will a vote be called or will it wait a year?

I think we should wait a few weeks to see where things go. Heretic's got Saturday's off now according to Marlene. I'd like to give everyone who is in a position now to take advantage of the momentum the realm has built up in the past weeks. We had a fucking amazing practice last week, which could have only been better if we had a Shepherd (who was there to shepherd) and a King present.



For the Marshal, I like what was suggested on the Commander's Forum that each unit submit 2 or 3 heralds that can be swapped out by the Marshal every other game or so to assist the Marshal in their duties.

In my honest opinion I believe we should wait to vote or do anything in effect until after the holidays + the new year. That will give us 2 months to finalize everything and let everyone speak their opinions

^^^ Agreed. There's going to be lots of real life getting in the way of Dag in these next few months. I'd say we wait 'till after the holidays too.

I'm glad you guys are actively working towards resolving the issues you feel you have in the Realm. Outstanding work.

Growing pains are good for the soul, just remember not to take anything personally, and that this is a game. If its becoming like work and people are getting hurt then either attitudes or the process needs to change.

Templar also makes a wise point of getting all your discussions done and then a final vote after the holidays. New year, new plan when everyone is stress-free of family and obligations.

Keep up the good work Barad'dun!

Hxctemplar wrote:

In my honest opinion I believe we should wait to vote or do anything in effect until after the holidays + the new year. That will give us 2 months to finalize everything and let everyone speak their opinions

Thats not a bad idea at all:D I does agreez!

@Tib: I am glad everyone is being calm about something as serious of a topic as this is. It gives me hope that we may finally be working out some of the realm kinks. Every group has them, very few can figure out how to responsibly deal with them. Based on my experience and what i have observed since starting dag:D

To this whole thing, yes the active member needs to be worked out. And that's for the Realm Council to decide.

I'm with Templar for the ratification. Wait a bit and start @ the new year.


Oh, and PS......

As High Marshall, I will be making a Heralding Corp. This has been my plan from the beginning.

They will be marked as a realm approved herald. Im hoping for every Unit to have a couple people as realm heralds.

More to come on this on a different thread. If you have any questions or want to try please PM me.......

Wow!! This is exactly what I wanted....kudos to you all.

@Prysm

Quote :

'Consistently' is defined as any three month period within the last six months prior to elections.

So you would be unable to attend two practices/events (which could include weapon builds and sewing circles) a month, three times, within a six month window, prior to an election day? I have included any realm sanctioned activity.

@Tooka

Quote :

Does that mean 2/3rds of the council must agree to call for an emergency election so we can get a marshall who was properly elected for the term?

No, if the Marshal who was elected is not cutting it, than the Council (by a 2/3rds vote) can hold an emergency election to replace him/her.

Quote :

I think that 'active' needs to be realm activity specific. If I get spiteful of the realm and say "screw it, I'm just doing Black Lion practices." why should I get a vote in the realm happenings??

As far as 'realm activity specific' I would assume you mean including weapon builds and sewing circles? I agree with that and have added it.

@Barrikade

Quote :

It all sounds ok at the moment but how does it Start? We have an Absentee King and no marshall and the Shepherd is sort of active. Also no Unit leader for the Royal army. so that leaves Taco/Konrad and sort of Shepherd. Do these 3 vote in a new king to get things started or do they vote to vote in a new king and then bring it to the Realm for election or something?

It's up to you guys. My suggestion would be to wait till after the holidays, then act as if the Council has called for an emergency vote. Hold elections, and do it again in 2012, unless the people elected don't hold to the job.

Quote :

Does The Marshall have to leave his/her unit or can anyone on the council be of any unit?

Any elected or appointed official may still retain their unit loyalty.

Quote :

It should be noted that a member who is elected or appointed into office is NOT required to quit his or her unit.

@Konradr

Quote :

5. If the Marshall is suppose to represent all members of the Realm who are not in units, wouldn't that either rob him of his vote on the council or does he get two, one for his position and one for the wishes and desires of those members of the realm. And who then monitors if he is actually expressing their wishes or not? Or do we stipulate you have to be active and a member of a unit to have a say/vote?

This is a very good point. I'm glad you caught this. The Marshal should get a vote on the council, voicing the safety side of things. Should we have the unit-less choose someone to sit on the council? Sort of a speaker, though not necessarily a 'leader'.



Thank you all for this. Keep it up. Lets get this hammered out and ready for the new year!!

P.S.- Please re-read the original post, revisions are in red.

in service.
K-

I think the Marshal is capable of handling the unit-less and the safety of the group. No need for a separate vote for each? Safety is #1 in this game, it says so in the rules, all of the council should vote with safety in mind.