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 Shield edging.

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konradr

konradr


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Join date : 2009-03-10
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Location : Las Vegas/Henderson

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PostSubject: Shield edging.   Shield edging. I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 21, 2010 7:37 am

Shield edging is not illegal in our rules. You can hit someone with the edge of your shield, but not to the face/head/neck area unless its unintentional. However, when doing so you must consider the safety of the other person at all times. You CAN NOT use excessive force. And your EDGE MUST BE PADDED SAFELY enough to not cause injury. Closed cell foam only shields (coreless) do not have enough weight/mass to be considered dangerous. Cored shields (Usually plywood) have alot of weight and must be safely padded on the front, edge and back so that injury won't happen. Teardrops, kites and Heater's with points must have the points safely padded even more so.

From the Dagorhir Forum:

Quote :
Intentionally targeting the face with a shield edge/bash could cause some nasty results and is illegal. Incidental shield contact with the face is still fine.

Quote :
Just don't do it to someone already on his knees, because a face hit is basically inevitable and injury will ensue.

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I know it is legal... I don't think it should be.
The way I see it, shield edges are not checked as striking edges, so they should not be struck with.

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Striking with edges is great - shields would lose a lot if we couldn't do that anymore. Most of the good shield attacks, short of all-out pushing, use the edge.
This is one of the reasons I'm in favor of open cell on the edges (if not the face as well) of shields. When I edge someone with my shield, they're getting hit with 2" of unifoam sandwiched between layers of blue foam. I feel no guilt.

Quote :
There's nothing in the rules saying you can't strike someone with the edge of your shield. Shield edges are checked to ensure that they're properly padded, and the rules specify that you're allowed to strike an opponent with your shield (3.7.2, 3.7.4), without saying that shield checks can only be contact with the face of the shield. Moreover, many fighters have been safely using this technique for a long time.
Shield edging should be done with the safety of other fighters in mind, but that's no different than any other kind of shield checking or bashing.

Quote :
From what I've heard a good number of board users say, shield edging should really only be used against another shield or weapon to gain the upper hand, not to actually hit an opponent's body with.

Quote :
Shield edging isn't and should never become illegal (face/head/neck shots excluded in this case). I've had it done and done it myself plenty of times. Of course the "point" of a teardrop shield would not likely pass as a green, it's not supposed to. Then again I'm not gonna be pool-cueing you with all my body mechanics in a shield edge. Edging is legal, it's not a "dirty" tactic. Edging is, by and large, safe. Most shields have flat or curved edges that are relatively wide that disperse any force behind them. I think i'd rather get shield-edged than hit by a red sword any day.

Konradr
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Isk

Isk


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Join date : 2009-06-29
Location : St. George, UT

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PostSubject: Re: Shield edging.   Shield edging. I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 21, 2010 5:58 pm

Just to respond to this quote:
Quote :
I know it is legal... I don't think it should be.
The way I see it, shield edges are not checked as striking edges, so they should not be struck with.
If the shield isn't checked as it were at least a blue, then the weapons checker fails.
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konradr

konradr


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Join date : 2009-03-10
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Location : Las Vegas/Henderson

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PostSubject: Re: Shield edging.   Shield edging. I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 21, 2010 6:29 pm

There was quite a bantor going on between one guy and a few others (all vets). The one guy's position was that if a shield edge is not checked to pass as a blue or a green, then it should not be used as a striking weapon and if he caught someone doing it he would yank them from the field.

The others, and one who stands out is Magnus of Narnia (he is also Magnus on Bel forum). There opinion that the shield is not a weapon, does not "Kill" or "wound" and as long as it is safely padded and is legal to "shield bash, shield check" with, then edging into someone is permissable. Done safely with regard to where you strike and how hard you strike.

We checked a newbies (new to us, but has Bel friends) shield whose edge was questionable. Hopefully he was told the it would need to be fixed but we allowed it on the field. Taco firmly believed that "shield edging" was not allowed in our fighting and stated so. However, I questioned this as I remember Surt saying it was. Surt was not present yesterday so I made a mental note to double check the ruling later. Anyhow, said shield was used in an edgewise shield check into Romeo's stomach and it hurt. Shield edging is allowable so we need to check the edges to make sure they are safely padded.

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Isk

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PostSubject: Re: Shield edging.   Shield edging. I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 22, 2010 5:34 pm

'Safely padded' is always pretty subjective. When I fought the first time, weapons were still open cell foam, so you were expected to pull your shots. A 'safe' weapon from that era would be unsafe in soooo many ways now. I could see in a realm or region where almost no one uses shield edges, they might feel a little less padding was necessary, but shield-edging is alive and well around here so I expect a solid core shield to normally need a full 1.5" of padding. With walmart blue foam that means 4 layers.

Our rules on bashing and edging are minimally different and neither ruleset specifically addresses shield-edging. In my mind, edging is just shield checking and the shield checking rules should apply.
Summary of Belegarth BoW wrote:
Shield bashing, checking and kicking are allowed. A person may not Bash, Check or Shield Kick an opponent's rear quadrant. Shield pushing or incidental contact in an opponent's rear quadrant is allowed.
Summary of Dagorhir MoA wrote:
Can't shield bash a gimp, though you can check them. Can check from behind (but still not bash). Shield contact to the head/neck is explicitly prohibited, not just discouraged. Kicking a buckler is not discouraged. Must keep one foot on the ground during a shield kick.
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PostSubject: Re: Shield edging.   Shield edging. I_icon_minitime

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